Considering I have a total of... zero Lightning cables and accessories, but a ton of standard USB-C? I would consider the 2019 iPhone line totally useless (but given by my lack of Lightning accessories, you can assume I use Android phones and thus consider all of the iPhones useless).
I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying (it's not even for an iphone but a raspberry-pi style device). I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone. Fast charge doesn't matter if you're able to actually let go of the phone and put it down, charging overnight should last all day.
I have now countered and balanced your data point, thus nullifying it.
I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying
Oh well clearly then your single data point proves that nobody uses USB-C despite it being on nearly every new computer and smartphone sold these days, including all the computers sold by Apple.
I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone.
Because even if you aren't trying you end up with a bunch over time. I've used iPhones for several product generations and so has my wife. I'm sure we have at least a dozen Lightning cables between us. I have 40+ USB-A/B cables, dozens of micro and mini USB cables, and probably 5 USB-C cables with more undoubtedly
Ye olde USB 1 isn't going away anytime soon, because it is cheap to implement. That makes it ideal for low-cost, low-bandwidth devices, especially input devices. And USB 2 has to stick around for another decade or so because of legacy flash drives and cameras. Consequently we will have all forms of USB for the foreseeable future.
Ye olde USB 1 isn't going away anytime soon, because it is cheap to implement.
Sadly this is undoubtedly true, at least the first bit. USB-C isn't hugely more expensive to implement but there is a large installed base of USB-A/B cables and ports out there already and that matters. I still haven't seen a printer with an USB-C port though I'm sure some exist. I've never seen a USB-C keyboard or mouse in person though again I'm sure they exist.
That makes it ideal for low-cost, low-bandwidth devices, especially input devices.
The cost argument isn't as significant as many people think. I make cables for a living so I'm more familiar than most with the costs involved. It actually costs more in a lot of cases to use multiple cables optimized for individual tasks than to just use a common cable that works for all, even if it is overkill for some of the tasks. USB-C is being produced at sufficient scale that the cost of it is not (or doesn't need to be) substantially higher than legacy USB connections. Once you include the engineering, tooling, support, warranty, supply chain, etc costs all in, the cost argument for legacy USB tends to be a poor one.
And USB 2 has to stick around for another decade or so because of legacy flash drives and cameras.
Older USB ports will stick around for quite a while but for more general reasons than just those items. Those items could be adapted to USB-C easily enough. It's more general network effects in play. The PC sitting behind me as I type this doesn't have a single USB-C port on it and it's not that old. Even unpopular legacy ports tend to die a hard death, particularly when they are as common as the older USB ports are. Hell we still see PCs with PS/2 ports even today for some mind blowing reason.
I make wire harnesses for a living and you would not believe how many tens of thousands of unnecessary, obsolete, redundant, and superseded connection components are still in use today. I have a bookshelf literally full of catalogs 20 feet from my desk 90+% full of legacy components that still get used here and there, mostly by idiot engineers who make perfect the enemy of good [wikipedia.org]. The big problem in converting is that a lot of existing equipment including a lot of charging infrastructure already has the ports. I think you are about right that it's going to take another 10-15 years to migrate the majority of equipment over to USB-C and to gradually clear out the older ports. They'll never completely go away but it's going to take a while to get to the tipping point where most vanish.
It's really not about the cables, but about the interface itself. USB2 is cooked right into the cheapest SoCs, USB1 is in cheap microcontrollers, keyboard interfaces, etc. The designs for those chips have been traded around, shared, transferred in fire sales etc. and as a result they are essentially free. The same thing will happen to the other forms of USB eventually, of course, but people will keep deploying the older forms at least up until that happens.
It's really not about the cables, but about the interface itself.
That's approximately the point I was trying to make, perhaps badly. Although to be fair the cables are part of the problem.
USB2 is cooked right into the cheapest SoCs, USB1 is in cheap microcontrollers, keyboard interfaces, etc. The designs for those chips have been traded around, shared, transferred in fire sales etc. and as a result they are essentially free.
Those are sunk costs and thus not really relevant to a cost analysis. The designs don't really cost much at this point but the components and assembly and supply chain do cost real money every time we build a machine that uses them. I'm fairly certain the main reason companies still include these legacy ports is because they fear (with some justification) that they will lose sales if
To be awake is to be alive. -- Henry David Thoreau, in "Walden"
Rolling Eyes (Score:2, Interesting)
Most customers want to keep the same connector, because they already have chargers and cables, and sometimes even accessories, for it.
USB-C is better in the long run, but that doesn't make it better now.
Re: (Score:1)
Considering I have a total of ... zero Lightning cables and accessories, but a ton of standard USB-C? I would consider the 2019 iPhone line totally useless (but given by my lack of Lightning accessories, you can assume I use Android phones and thus consider all of the iPhones useless).
Re: (Score:2)
I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying (it's not even for an iphone but a raspberry-pi style device). I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone. Fast charge doesn't matter if you're able to actually let go of the phone and put it down, charging overnight should last all day.
I have now countered and balanced your data point, thus nullifying it.
USB-C against the world (Score:2)
I've only ever seen one USB-C cable and the person who uses it finds it annoying
Oh well clearly then your single data point proves that nobody uses USB-C despite it being on nearly every new computer and smartphone sold these days, including all the computers sold by Apple.
I don't know why someone would have a "ton" of those cables, maybe two if they have a new iphone.
Because even if you aren't trying you end up with a bunch over time. I've used iPhones for several product generations and so has my wife. I'm sure we have at least a dozen Lightning cables between us. I have 40+ USB-A/B cables, dozens of micro and mini USB cables, and probably 5 USB-C cables with more undoubtedly
Re: (Score:3)
Ye olde USB 1 isn't going away anytime soon, because it is cheap to implement. That makes it ideal for low-cost, low-bandwidth devices, especially input devices. And USB 2 has to stick around for another decade or so because of legacy flash drives and cameras. Consequently we will have all forms of USB for the foreseeable future.
The agonizingly slow conversion (Score:2)
Ye olde USB 1 isn't going away anytime soon, because it is cheap to implement.
Sadly this is undoubtedly true, at least the first bit. USB-C isn't hugely more expensive to implement but there is a large installed base of USB-A/B cables and ports out there already and that matters. I still haven't seen a printer with an USB-C port though I'm sure some exist. I've never seen a USB-C keyboard or mouse in person though again I'm sure they exist.
That makes it ideal for low-cost, low-bandwidth devices, especially input devices.
The cost argument isn't as significant as many people think. I make cables for a living so I'm more familiar than most with the costs involved. It actually costs more in a lot of cases to use multiple cables optimized for individual tasks than to just use a common cable that works for all, even if it is overkill for some of the tasks. USB-C is being produced at sufficient scale that the cost of it is not (or doesn't need to be) substantially higher than legacy USB connections. Once you include the engineering, tooling, support, warranty, supply chain, etc costs all in, the cost argument for legacy USB tends to be a poor one.
And USB 2 has to stick around for another decade or so because of legacy flash drives and cameras.
Older USB ports will stick around for quite a while but for more general reasons than just those items. Those items could be adapted to USB-C easily enough. It's more general network effects in play. The PC sitting behind me as I type this doesn't have a single USB-C port on it and it's not that old. Even unpopular legacy ports tend to die a hard death, particularly when they are as common as the older USB ports are. Hell we still see PCs with PS/2 ports even today for some mind blowing reason.
I make wire harnesses for a living and you would not believe how many tens of thousands of unnecessary, obsolete, redundant, and superseded connection components are still in use today. I have a bookshelf literally full of catalogs 20 feet from my desk 90+% full of legacy components that still get used here and there, mostly by idiot engineers who make perfect the enemy of good [wikipedia.org]. The big problem in converting is that a lot of existing equipment including a lot of charging infrastructure already has the ports. I think you are about right that it's going to take another 10-15 years to migrate the majority of equipment over to USB-C and to gradually clear out the older ports. They'll never completely go away but it's going to take a while to get to the tipping point where most vanish.
Re: (Score:2)
It's really not about the cables, but about the interface itself. USB2 is cooked right into the cheapest SoCs, USB1 is in cheap microcontrollers, keyboard interfaces, etc. The designs for those chips have been traded around, shared, transferred in fire sales etc. and as a result they are essentially free. The same thing will happen to the other forms of USB eventually, of course, but people will keep deploying the older forms at least up until that happens.
Network effects (Score:2)
It's really not about the cables, but about the interface itself.
That's approximately the point I was trying to make, perhaps badly. Although to be fair the cables are part of the problem.
USB2 is cooked right into the cheapest SoCs, USB1 is in cheap microcontrollers, keyboard interfaces, etc. The designs for those chips have been traded around, shared, transferred in fire sales etc. and as a result they are essentially free.
Those are sunk costs and thus not really relevant to a cost analysis. The designs don't really cost much at this point but the components and assembly and supply chain do cost real money every time we build a machine that uses them. I'm fairly certain the main reason companies still include these legacy ports is because they fear (with some justification) that they will lose sales if